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December
17, 2007
Planning Board Minutes
Oswego Town Hall |
Chair:
Jeffrey Boyer
Town Board Members: Judy Sabin-Watson, Francis
Dellamano,
Lee Phillips, Barry Pritchard, James Finn
Attorney To The Board: Stephen Greene, Jr. |
Call
to Order:
At approximately 7:00 PM, Francis Dellamano, filling in for
Chairman Jeffrey Boyer, called the meeting to order.
Those
in attendance were:
Judy
Watson
Francis Dellamano
Lee Phillips
Barry Pritchard
Stephen Greene, Jr.
Kevin Caraccioli |
Member
Member
Member
Member
Attorney To The Board
Attorney for Zoning Board |
Absent was:
Approval of November 19, 2007 Minutes:
Fran asked for a motion to approve the Minutes of November 19,
2007. Lee Phillips made the motion, and Judy Watson seconded
it. All ayes. Motion carried
Approval of December 5, 2007 Committee Meeting:
Jim Finn made a motion that the December 5, 2007 Committee Meeting
be approved. Barry Pritchard seconded the motion. All ayes.
Motion carried.
New Business:
Application #2007-14 - David Washburn - Special Permit for New
Business, Sign Permit and Site Plan:
Fran said we should get some basic information first. We should
go through the Zoning Permit on the sign. The first thing that
Fran saw was the zoning as commercial, and we don't have commercial
in the town so that has to be updated. The existing sign says
temporary - what does that mean? Dave Washburn said Donna the
former hairdresser there had a sign up on that pole, which we
are going to remove and put our sign there. Fran said existing
sign - 36 square feet. Dave said it is 6í x 6í
originally. Fran asked what he meant by originally. Fran said
there are some things on this application that need to be clarified.
He is not satisfied with the sign application as there are some
mistakes. Dave said there was an existing sign there. Fran said
the dimensions are not correct. Fran asked if anyone has stopped
there and went in. Dave said Wayne had been there numerous times,
and Margie has been there. Fran said he had been there. He said
the sign is free standing, There are two pieces of channel on
it, so wonder how free standing it is. Must have been ready
to fall over, and someone welded some channel on it. Dave said
they have dug around it, and there is concrete. Fran asked why
it is braced like that. Dave said it is a precaution. There
is a 6 foot diameter concrete base. Judy asked if the sign on
the building is on the application. Dave said yes, but we don't
have an application for that. Lee asked how high the sign is
above the ground. Dave said it is at least 12 feet to the bottom
of the sign. Lee also asked if the sign will interfere with
anyone seeing, it's high enough up in the air. Fran said as
to the boundary lines, we'll have to look at on the Site Plan.
Fran asked Dave what he plans to do there. Dave said we are
building a small restaurant - basically hot dogs, hamburgers,
soups, and salads. There will be take out to the university.
It will be a neighborhood type restaurant. We have seating for
about 30 people. It won't be a lot of eating crowd. It will
be mostly be come in and out, and take out. We will also have
seating out front. Lee asked if they would be open year around,
and Dave said yes. Judy asked if they would have a liquor license,
and Dave said no.
Fran asked if he was the owner of the land, and Dave said yes.
Dave also added that he will be employing about 12 local folks.
Fran said Dave stated on the application that he didn't do anything
outside, but saw that he put some concrete out on the porch.
Dave said he had to level things off to the doors. He said he
had asked Wayne if he had to have a permit to put in a concrete
patio, and was told no.
Fran said he stopped there and has a real problem. It is right
at an intersection. How are you going to get your stuff delivered?
Dave said they have a delivery area, that will be striped. He
said he used to deliver for Pepsi so knows all the ins and outs.
Fran told Dave for us to make a decision, he needs to get a
survey with the parking spots in there -- what you have here
isn't adequate, it is just sketches. We also have to show the
boundaries. Fran said he thinks that the Board should go there
and meet after the survey is done.
Dave said the whole thing is very frustrating. He wondered who
they would talk to that would know what to do - we have been
here a million times. He has talked to the Health Department.
Fran told him he should have gotten a Site Plan Review. That
is what we are trying to do now. Dave said we were told we were
all set. It was a restaurant before. Fran said if Dave could
get an engineer to design the parking lot, as parking is a problem.
If the restaurant is going to seat 30 people, then there are
8 or 10 cars right there. And you are going to have trucks to
deliver goods. They'll have to mess around with that road there.
Dave said he had talked to all the delivery truck drivers. He
had already told them there will be no deliveries during the
hours we will be in business. They aren't going to open until
11:00 o'clock.
Kevin said clearly on the site plan review and clearly based
on the County 239 review, a resubmission site plan drawn to
scale showing the parking, and ingress and egress, and that
as Fran says is a formal site plan drawn out by a licenses land
surveyor. There are plenty in the area who would do it. Fran
says if there is not enough parking, they will be parking on
Baylis, and that is a highly residential area. Jim Finn said
we should provide Mr. Washburn with a copy of the letter from
the county as that pretty well explains it in a nutshell what
is needed.
Judy said she has an issue with the signage. There should be
applications for 2 signs - the one on the building, and then
the free standing sign. Dave asked who could explain this form
to us, and walk us through it, as to the signage.
Kevin again stated there are a number of land surveyors who
have come before this Board, and they are all local. Fran said
we also need someone who can plot out the parking. Barry said
the land surveyors can do that. Kevin said the DOT would be
involved in this too. Dave said he understands the regulations,
but wants the Board to understand his frustrations. He said
they put their life savings into this restaurant, only to find
out we are not all set. We have sent all the letters out Certified
Mail at a huge expense to us, would we have to renotify them
for the next meeting? Fran said since we don't have adequate
information to base anything on, just postpone the hearing.
Fran said he thinks the neighbors should be notified again.
Kevin said that would not be his opinion. Dave said that would
leave us bankrupt, as he spent almost $1.000 on Certified Mail.
Kevin said it is this Board's decision how to move forward.
We have asked these folks to commit a rather large expense perhaps
prematurely. I don't think we can necessarily charge these folks
with further obligation to resubmit a notice when they have
done what we have asked them to do in terms of submitting a
plan. The Board is well within its jurisdiction to ask for a
revised Site Plan similar to what the County is saying. The
alternative is public notice which is in compliance with Town
Law. Dr Rabozzi is here and wants to be heard.
Fran said we will complete the Public Hearing tonight and then
we do a public notice in the paper to notify the people of the
updated plan. Everyone was in agreement with Fran.
Fran asked the public to make comments on the proposed Hot Dog
Restaurant.
Mario Rabozzi:
The first thing he said is that he likes hot dogs, as long as
they are Hoffmann's and not the ones from Buffalo. He asked
why it was Mr. Washburn's responsibility to hand deliver the
statement that I am looking at? Why doesn't the Town mail information
to us. Another question he had was why the Planning Board didn't
schedule the meeting before all the renovations were done? Even
the blacktop in the parking area, which was never there. They
have done beautiful work on the front of the building. It was
a big expense, and he asked why after the fact. They have thousands
of dollars invested, I am sure. He was curious as to how many
households were contacted. Dave said it was about 192 households.
Dr. Rabozzi said 41 cents for a postage stamp - Dave said they
were sent Certified, Return Receipt Requested which came to
$5.21 each.
Fran asked if there are any other people who want to comment
on the issue. Mr. Rabozzi asked why the Board didn't go after
this vigorously. Lee Phillips said we don't have anything to
do with it until the application comes to us. This is the first
time we had anything to do with this. Barry said we talked at
our September meeting as to what was going on. But we were told
almost the same thing.
Fran told the Washburn's to get everything together, and come
to the next meeting, which is January 21, 2008.
Discussion - Material Receive from Trygve Stout:
Fran asked Mr. Stout to come up front. He asked Mr. Stout if
this was for a Site Plan Review, and Mr. Stout said he had no
idea. He said Wayne showed up with a couple of sheets of paper
told him he had to turn them in. That was 7 months after the
fact. Judy asked if he is going to own this, and Mr. Stout says
he owns the entire tract. Judy asked if he was going to sell
some off, and he said none of the property is for sale. Fran
asked if it was going to be a private road, and Mr. Stout said
yes, a private tract. Fran said it is an R-4 out there, and
Mr. Stout said it is commercial. Fran said there is no such
thing as commercial. Mr. Stout said he had a conversation with
the attorneys. Years ago when we established Stout Financial,
it had to change to accommodate the commercial business. That
was one of the very first things we had to do, and it took us
quite a while. He said there was a Variance. Fran said if he
had a variance, it would be in the Town Records someplace. Fran
asked who owned the property previously, and was told Zagame
Trust down in Florida. Fran asked what we are going to do -
we have to find out what the Variance was. Steve said he is
sure it was done. Mr. Stout said it was in 2003 or 2004. Marge
said that was before she got in, so she wouldn't have it in
the minutes. Judy said she still has a lot of documentation
on this. Mr. Stout said he went on for a year and a half before
all the proper channels were done. Judy said she has no doubt
in her mind that everything was done. Steve stated we should
go through the Site Plan Review and see what was done. Fran
said he noticed in the application - Agricultural Data Statement
- #7 - "Is the property located within 500 feet of an agricultural
district" and it says Yes. Mr. Stout said it is not within
500 feet. The building sets back 350 feet, and behind me is
an unused farm. It is a field that belongs to the Oleyourryk's.
Fran said across the road is an agricultural district. Mr. Stout
said there is a muck across the street from his property, That
property sets 350 feet off the road. Behind him is a stone wall.
He has the required distance between his property and that building.
Behind him is an unused field, and if you cross 104 there is
a place where they store onions, then you get down to the muck,
and to the left of that is a storage building. There is an apple
orchard on one side with a trash trailer that has garbage outside,
and the other side is Mr. Yule.
Fran asked what the width is of Stout Drive. Mr. Stout said
there is a developed 14 foot drive. Fran asked if it would be
adequate for fire trucks, and Mr. Stout said yes. Fran asked
according to our Land Use Control, what is our responsibility
with this. Steve said it is on the Site Plan. Judy said she
was concerned that he was going to remain the owner of it. Mr.
Stout said they are designed as patio homes for retirees. The
first two buildings are spoken for. And the one in the back
a doctor is interested in. It is designed for older people,
easy living.
Fran said Marge will take care of getting a copy of the variance,
and will see that the application goes to the County Planning
Board. So we will see you on January 21st.
Old Business:
Committee Meeting On United Group:
Jim Finn stated that at the Committee Meeting that there about
125 people who don't want the college housing out there, is
the traffic situation where Johnson Road meets 104, and I don't
think their traffic study adequately dealt with the issue. Fran
said you can hire all the engineers and all the lawyers you
want, you can put 50% common sense to the whole thing. Jim said
he thinks he they put a 4-way stop at Mollison Road and Johnson
Road, that's my gut feeling. Fran said we should take the bull
by the horns and do something with Mollison Road. Barry said
their had been some changes to the Site Plan. Phase II is gone
now. Jim Finn said he hasn't seen a Site Plan as to where they
are putting the sewer. He said he thinks if they do something
with that area as to traffic stops, and lights, the people of
Ontario Heights will be much happier. Barry said all of the
stuff that we read in the first traffic study is still part
of the SEQRA. The second pamphlet we got, is just additions
to that.
Greg Herrmann said Mollison Road is a private road. The college
owns it. Judy said she thinks the housing with be a feather
in their cap. They want a decent place to live. They don't want
to live downtown. Jim Finn said he has been trying to be in
favor of this project, but so many people in Ontario Heights
are against it, because of traffic. Fran said he thinks with
Steve's leadership, take a positive step toward the project
and traffic study.
Barry said John Condino said they had met their requirements
for the SEQRA. Then this Board has to make a negative or positive
declaration.
Public Comment:
None
Open Board Discussion:
None
Adjournment:
At approximately 8:45 PM, Lee Phillips made a motion to adjourn
the meeting. Barry Pritchard seconded the motion. All ayes.
Motion carried.
Respectfully submitted,
Marjorie Best,
Secretary to Planning Board
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