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May
30, 2007
Planning Board Minutes Committee Meeting
Oswego Town Hall |
Chair:
Jeffrey Boyer
Town Board Members: Judy Sabin-Watson, Francis
Dellamano,
Lee Phillips, Barry Pritchard, James Finn
Attorney To The Board: Stephen Greene, Jr. |
Call
to Order:
At approximately 7:00 PM, Fran Dellamano called the Committee
Meeting to order.
Attendance
of Committee Members:
Francis
Dellamano
Lee Phillips
Marjorie Best |
Committee
Member
Committee Member
Planning Board Secretary |
Those
in attendance from United Development Group:
| Jeffrey
Smetana |
Craig Zogby |
Ronald Mogren |
Timothy Faulkner |
|
| Executive
Vice President of United Group |
| Project
Manager of United Group |
| Senior
Associate - Saratoga Associates - Architect |
| Associate
Senior Engineer - Clough Harbour & Associates |
|
Also present
was Greg Herrmann as an observer. Fran opened up the meeting
by stating the purposes of this meeting is a problem he had
brought up at the last meeting - traffic. The site isn't adjacent
to the college, and the students will be traveling is a risky
area with not very wide streets, not very wide front yards,
and no sidewalks. He said we are very concerned about that,
and how we are going to make it less of a problem for the people
living in the residential area, and the town. We wanted to do
this now, and not wait until the day we vote, as there must
be some interactions here where we can come to a common ground.
When we started this, he understood that United Group was supposed
to come up with some money for the town to hire technical people
to answer some of our questions. He asked who the people are
who were hired as advisors for the Town, and Jeff Smetana said
Barton & Loguidice. This is for water, sewer and for traffic.
They are supposed to coinciding with the Planning Board on the
SEQRA Process. Jeff understands that Barton & Loguidice
received the Environmental Assessment Form forwarded to them.
The Town does not have their own full time engineer. He said
they spent $10,000 for their services.
Lee Phillips stated the Committee Meeting tonight is specifically
for traffic.
Fran asked about Tim Faulkner's background. He asked if he went
to classes regarding traffic consulting. Tim said he went to
Clarkson University. They have three or four classes on traffic
engineering. Lee said we are on the right subject, and United
Group brought the right guy. Tim said he is here to listen to
the concerns, and then write up a report
Jeff Smetana said that Clough Harbour is one of the largest
engineering firms on the East Coast, maybe in the country. They
have used their Albany Office quite a bit over the years. Jeff
wanted to make sure we had someone we would feel comfortable
with. Jeff said the main thing tonight is to listen to the concerns,
and Tim will send on a report. Jeff said we have heard several
times that we have selected this site, as we felt it had a minimal
impact on the surrounding community. Jeff then pointed to all
the drawings and maps showing various areas regarding traffic
patterns, parking areas, bus routes, bicycle traffic, and where
the classes are held at the college. Fran said we have no problem
with the Site Plan - we are here for the traffic problems. Fran
asked where the easement would come out on 104, and Jeff said
where the traffic light is, and again pointed it out on the
plan. Fran asked Jeff to show him on the map where the college
holds their classes, and Jeff also pointed them out. There are
commuter lots - one on 104, and then the one behind Laker Hall;
and also one at the Newman Center - so this is where they would
go - the purple line. The red line is the bus route.
Greg Herrmann said he took some measurements from the housing
to Baylis Street, and to the campus is a mile. He said they
aren't going to walk a mile when a bus will be provided for
them.
(At this point, all the participants walked over to the maps
and drawings and double checked where the roads, walkways, commuter
lots, and classes are- everyone talking at once).
Do kids have to get a parking ticket in order to park in those
commuter parking lots? Greg Herrmann explained that the students
must go to the building where Lincoln Bank used to be and pick
up a parking permit ticket. It is strictly enforced. There are
residence tickets for those who live on campus; commuter tickets
for those who drive to campus; they are different colored tickets.
Jeff said he is certain there are other lots that are for employees.
Lee Phillips asked how they work the parking lots - is it by
distance, or first come, first serve? Jeff said - first come,
first serve. Fran asked how much the parking tickets are, and
Greg said $120 a year.
Lee asked what the college is doing with that gravel parking
lot. Greg said that is just a plain gravel parking lot. It is
an extension they did, and they haven't black topped it. Lee
said where they park along the lake is residential too, and
Greg said it was. The big commuter lots are Romney, and the
other by the Power Plant. Fran asked Greg if he sees many kids
walking, and he said no. Lee asked Jeff if he had contacted
the bus company, and Jeff said he did. Jeff explained the bus
company is paid now by the student association, as they are
an independent bus company. United Group said they would pay
the bus company to expand their service to come into their site,
and they designed it so there would be a turnaround. The bus
company is willing to do it, if the student association, who
pays them, will allow them to do it. Jeff explained the bus
schedule which would be from 7:30 to 4:30 every 10 or 15 minutes,
and from 4:30 to 11:30 every 30 minutes. Lee said when the school
year begins, starting in September and going through the winter,
you are not going to see more waiting for the bus. Jeff said
they also have the little bus huts to go into while waiting
for the bus to protect them from the weather.
Jeff also said the majority of the classes are from 10:00 until
2:00. Most residents drive from 7:00 to 9:00 in the morning
commuting to work, there will not be as much traffic. Lee says
he sees a lot of students driving from the city to the college,
and obviously park somewhere. Jeff said they come into the commuter
lots. The student association bus takes them to the city, and
all the way to the east end to the shopping centers, etc. Lee
said there are a lot of students going up Washington Blvd. from
the city. He said he's gone to Raby's a few times, and he has
seen the kids driving back and forth through there. Fran said
the houses are really close to the road. They don't have much
front yard. There isn't even room for a sidewalk at some places.
Jeff said at some of the intersections we could designate them
as "No Through Traffic". We could have the Sheriff
come in and police it. If they get a ticket going down one of
those streets, they would pull their parking permit, and they
won't have a car. Lee said they won't leave their car in the
parking lot all the time. They will be driving downtown. If
they come out 104 toward the apartments, they have to cross
where it goes from 4 lanes to 2 lanes. It is still going to
be a problem, no matter how they do it. Lee said maybe we had
better get an idea of just what the traffic study will do.
Tim Faulkner said he is here to listen to what the concerns
are, and then do the traffic study. We would look at a couple
of main intersections in the area. You are worried about reducing
the capacity of the roadway, and creating severe congestion,
which is an issue. We will look at what the existing conditions
are at some of the neighboring intersections, and see how much
traffic would be generated by this use. When we don't look at
schools, we look at the 7:00 to 9:00 periods, and the 4:00 to
6:00 periods, as they are the main commuter periods. When we
talk about schools, sometimes we stretch that a little because
the school peak fall outside the commuter peak. We have 3 or
4 separate peaks. What we do is take a look at some of the nearby
intersections and project how much traffic will be generated
by the apartment complex - add that to the traffic that is already
on the existing roadways, or can come up with an estimate of
what the traffic is going to be like in the future. And then
do the analysis to see how it will operate in the future, as
to how they operate today.
Lee said you are talking about future - The first building will
have 306 parking spaces. Are we talking about both these buildings
together, which will be 522? That certainly would be in the
future. Tim said under this type of development, we look at
two different futures. This is going to be built in two phases.
So the first future phase would be the day of opening of Phase
I, the one with the 306 parking spaces. Then we look at Phase
II, that would be additional traffic caused by those additional
buildings that are being constructed. You add that onto the
past future. Say Phase I will open in 2008. Let's say Phase
II will open in 2010.
Jeff said what they would like to do is build a relationship
with Phase I, where everyone is happy with it. What we want
to do in terms of the SEQRA and the Site Plan, but we still
have to come to you for a Building Permit, and what not for
Phase II. If things aren't going well, and we are not doing
what we said we were going to do, we will have a pretty hard
time building Phase II. We want to make a positive contribution
to the community, which I hope is what happens, then I think
you folks should be very open with us.
Lee again brought up the issue of where the 4 lanes come into
two. He indicated there is only room for one car if someone
wants to turn. He is afraid there will be bottlenecks right
there. Jeff said that is something they will certainly look
at. If there is a concern about safety there, we would certainly
talk with the State and we could obtain records for that intersection
to see if there have been any amount of accidents there. We
could use the median as part of the left turn lane. Lee asked
how the State is receptive to something like that. Jeff said
he is sure the State would comply if it was making it safer
for people. Fran said so far, he doesn't think there have been
many accidents there. Greg Herrmann and the Fire Department
go to all accident scenes, and he said they don't go there frequently
at all.
Tim Faulkner said he has a very good relationship with Region
3 DOT. He said he would talk with Mark Frechette, their Regional
Program Planning Manager. He said he would also talk to their
Systems Operations which is their nuts and bolts traffic engineering
safety people; Mark Granier is one person.
Tim Faulkner said they have, it is almost one of their bibles
- it is called a Trip Generation Manual and it has 200 to 300
references pertaining to apartment complexes - it will give
an estimate of the amount of traffic that will be generated
per unit. That is based on studies that have been done across
the country. It is also done for shopping centers, fast food
restaurants, etc.
Fran said another thing he would like them to look at, is that
there are no sidewalks on Johnson Road, and with anybody walking,
that would be pretty dangerous. They travel pretty fast down
that road. Tim said it depends on what side of the campus they
are going on. (Again, they all looked at maps and drawings and
had some discussion). Greg said if they did add a sidewalk,
maybe that would encourage the kids to walk.
Lee said there will probably be more joggers than walkers. Jeff
said they are going to give the students bicycle storage, because
bicycles may be popular. Fran said when it is snowing, they
will take the bus. But when it's not snowing, and the bicycle
path they pointed out, he thinks it will work out good. Lee
said a little over a month ago, his brother got in a wreck at
a college, with kids coming out of the parking lot, and hit
him right in the side. There were a number of kids in the car.
They weren't paying attention to what was going on. He said
that age is a dangerous age.
Fran asked if the college is going to expand. Jeff's understanding
is they grew about 10% over the last 8 years. They went from
6,000 to 6,600 - these are full time under grads. His understanding
is they really don't want to grow larger, they want to grow
more competitive. The colleges are in regions, and Oswego is
in the Central Region. And this region they expect to grow through
2013 by about 5%.
Lee asked about what students are required to live on campus,
and Jeff said Freshman and Sophomores. Lee asked Jeff about
their complex, and he said Juniors, Seniors and Grad students.
Jeff was also asked how many beds were on campus, and were told
3,500 bed.
Lee wondered when we could expect the study, as we have a meeting
on June 12th, and the next meeting, we will have to make the
decision, which will be July 16th. Jeff said he would submit
it by June 8th to they will have it to review over the weekend.
Fran stated that a lot of the issues have been cleared up with
him. That is why we wanted to meet ahead of time.
Lee is still concerned with the traffic - not on campus, but
people going back and forth downtown. Jeff said there is a history
of events that come to Laker Hall, where a lot of people gather.
Lee said they often have the police standing on the corner directing
traffic. Greg said the only time the police direct traffic is
graduations and major events.
Fran asked Tim if he would include all three in the traffic
study - vehicular, pedestrian and bicycle, and Tim said yes.
Fran said if they want to get approval, we have to make it all
positive. He said we have had a good discussion, and we have
some input on some of our concerns.
The Committee Meeting was adjourned at approximately 8:05 PM.
Respectfully submitted,
Marjorie Best,
Planning Board Secretary. |
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